Finding Freedom from Perfectionism & How to Enjoy the Season of Motherhood with Andrea Fortenberry

Hi beautiful friends and welcome back to Faith filled woman. This is your host, Kristen. Today I have a conversation with my guest about how do we let go of some of our perfectionist tendencies? How can we truly enjoy the season of mothering? How can we be kinder to ourselves? And how can we see the beauty in everyday living, even when it's busy and even when it's messy? It's a great conversation. I think it'll lift you up and let you really feel connected and supported and your role as a woman as a possibly as a mother. Hi, beautiful friend and Welcome to Faith fueled woman. I want to ask you, are you ready to accept the invitation we've been given to step into the adventure of pursuing God and what He has for us. I am Kristen. I am an encourager. I'm a Christian, inspirational speaker, author and podcaster. I help women grow in their faith, purpose and business so they can have lasting legacy and impact in their homes and in the world. If you want to partner with God to design your life, to be less hurried, less stressed, be more excited and feel alive and your purpose commitment to God and your family. This is the podcasting community for you. Hi, I'd like to welcome Andrea Fortenberry to the show today. She's a writer, speaker and a Bible teacher. She's the host of the perfectionist guide to mothering a podcast that equips moms to find freedom from perfectionism and show up for the life God has for them. She's been married to Willow for 18 years. And they have two children ages 14 and 11. Being a wife and mom gives her lots of material and teaches her Oh, so many things. She and her family live outside of Phoenix, Arizona. She is on the staff with mops international as an executive leadership coach, where she encourages and supports mops leaders across the country. I am so excited for our conversation today. Because I love how Andreea helps women. I love how she helps moms step through that season of mothering by just encouraging them and lifting them up and letting them know that we are all doing a fine job. And when we walk in that relationship with God, it just makes it so much better. So much easier and so much more rich. So welcome, Andrea.

Thank you, Kristen. I'm so excited to be here. Oh,

I cannot wait. Well, can you start off with just telling us a little bit about your journey as a mom and the writer and a speaker and a Bible teacher and what what life looks like now?

Absolutely. So I am a mom of two kiddos, my daughter is 14 and in ninth grade, so high school for her. And then our son is 11 and in sixth grade and my journey really with kind of writing and speaking and motherhood all kind of, you know, gelled and intermixed, but really, I felt like I have always been a writer at heart. As a kid, I was an avid reader, I loved writing and creating my own newsletters and things like that. So I feel like writing has always been a part of my life and just how God wired me. And then when I became a mom, I was volunteering at church teaching Bible study writing on the side, things like that, I started my own blog. And then I found as I just was going through life, I became a stay at home mom, I was able to really just observe a lot of things going on with my kids. And I would try to write them down. But what really was both healing for me and also gives me a lot of content to write and speak about was just realizing that I very easily became frustrated with my kids with how very often my plan that I made as a mom were not working out, or when my kids would not listen, or they were just not on the same page with my agenda of accomplishing things and having a schedule and things like that. So really, I because of this frustration, and really anger I was feeling quite often I decided to go to a Christian counselor and I walked in expecting that she could give me 10 Easy Steps to get over being frustrated as a mom. But it really took several years I've seen her regularly to unpack, really why I was a perfectionist and to just go through some things that happened in my own life and that were in my heart that I'd never processed and going through that helped me to be a better version of myself, which then in turn, made me a better mom because I was able to let go of these really high expectations that I had for both myself and for my kids and my family. And I really was able to embrace the imperfection of being a mom and having kids, little kids and just living life in general because none of us are perfect. I think a lot of us desire to be perfect and to accomplish and so God really just helped me to understand my season and to let go of some of those things that I I was putting on myself that really weren't, weren't necessary at all.

I think that that is such a common challenge that most moms, you know, face in some way, right in some area, maybe all the areas, but just we all want to do a good job, we want to show up and be the best we can be. And that's hard every second, right? When you have rights, like a child or many children, it is hard, because there's a lot of demands put on us at all hours. Like they say, being a mom is the job that never stops right? In clock out, you know, so if at 2am, somebody's sick, guess what? 2am? You're up, right? And so there's also a lot of sleep deprivation that goes along or can when they're young. But I think it's amazing, you know, that you were able to take, you know, kind of where you found yourself and parenting, and said, You know what, maybe I could, I should seek someone to help me with this. And then you went through that journey. And now you're actually able to help other people hear your perspective and your writing and your podcast conversations, to help them see what you learned through that process and how you can show up as a mom today, I think that's amazing.

Thank you, thank you. Yeah, it really has been so helpful for me in every season of motherhood, now that we are in different stages, I carry those things with me. And then I love being able to encourage, like you said, All moms that I think we don't realize when we go into motherhood that we have our own issues that will come out that will be exposed. And so I just like to encourage moms that when you find these things that come out, not if but when you find in your heart, there's some stuff there that you need to process, encourage them to do that. Because like I said, it makes you a better version of who you are. And that spills over and blesses your family as well.

Absolutely. I had a conversation maybe two months ago with one of my guests. And we were talking sort of, from a faith based perspective, how you know, hit why, why it's important to heal ourselves with whatever it is whatever career is, in, that can be a lifelong process, right? We're going to have different parts or different things that we haven't fully processed maybe. But what I love, what she said is, God can't fully use us if we're stuck with if we're stuck in the hurt, or the trauma. In other words, when we actually do the work, you know, with both our our faith, but also if we need to go see a counselor or whatever else it is to process it. When we show up fully healed, God uses us and she gave the example that if you go into a room, and you're absorbed in yourself, and you're hurt, and you're, you know, feeling, you know, unsure of yourself, then God won't be able to use you as much as if we show up in that room, healed and ready to fully serve how he wants to use us. And I thought that was so beautiful, because it put it in a different perspective. You know, like, wow, it's not just, it was never just about us, right? Because even as moms, it's about our family, it's about our kids. But I really loved her example of, you know, even in our families, even our lives, we can't show up fully, who God's turning us into how he's changing our hearts, you know, we're once to use our experiences, right our past, unless we do the work right to becoming who he wants us to be.

Right and interesting thing is that I didn't realize that I had healing that needed to occur. And I think part of it is the perfectionist mentality that I had of, I'm a self starter, I'm self motivated, like, I can create my own success, like I can just move forward and achieve. And so I, what I realized, in going through the counseling was oh, that really is a coping mechanism for things that have happened in my life. And when she did poke and prod and ask deeper questions, and I talked about things I realized, Oh, I did have some stuff that I needed to dig through and to process that really was, you know, some some trauma, some things that that I had never processed. And so I think when you have that perfectionist tendency or mindset, you kind of gloss over, like, oh, I don't have anything that I need to talk about, or there's not really anything there when I could think back, but really, I did have things that needed needed to be talked about.

Yeah, well, I would say that that's where a lot of people fall. I mean, of course, there's some people that know that they had some things happened in their lives, you know, whether it was with as a child or all the way into a marriage, whatever it might be. And I think the majority of people fall into the camp where they may be perfectionist that could be codependency that they don't even I know I fallen into that. I didn't even know it's considered codependency if you're an over pleaser, right? So in other words, I think a lot of us have these patterns that there's a lot more information nowadays than there was 10 or 15 or 20 years ago that people talking about this stuff. And so I think one thing is, is if you see that there's repeat patterns coming up, right? You keep getting frustrated about something it could be in your marriage or with your kids or at your workplace. You know, I think that's when we start needing to pause and reflect, and see what's going on there, right? And kind of have to look. But if you will, and if we find that it's not something that's easily addressable, or we don't understand even how to address it, and that's when, right, we need to maybe go and find someone to guide us or help us or start learning more about what might be going on. And I think that's important to tell people because I think most of us, as we get a little older realize, didn't even know that was something that was a problem, or maybe the something that's getting me stuck. And I keep saying, you know,

yes, my counselor helped me to realize, okay, in those moments when I am feeling angry when I'm feeling frustrated, what, what are the specific root feelings because anger is really a secondary emotion. So she helped me to see that and also to realize, oh, when my kids are disrespecting me, I'm angry, because I have, that is a trigger for me based on some past things that I where I felt really disrespected. So that is why I part of why I get so upset. So that's really helpful in those moments where you catch yourself being overly stressed or frazzled or overwhelmed. What is at the heart of that? And is it connected to something from your past that you maybe have never processed? That was really helpful to me?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's, that was, it's so important. And I love that you shared that. And, you know, even sometimes in my, you know, my marriage, you know, something little minor happens, but I noticed that I get quite bothered by it and not angry, but just like, it makes me want to pull back. i It takes me a bit but then I have to kind of really reflect like, what's my, why am I feeling this way? Like wasn't a reaction, right? And it might may or may not be right, it depends on the thing. But I have to do the work, right, whether it's mental or writing it down and really consider, like you said, Well, what, what's really behind how I reacted to something, right? It's the same. And, you know, I think, as I know, you and I both talked about friendships, but even in friendships, you know, I have so many wonderful, amazing women in my life, and they're all very healthy relationships, but we'll all have our moment of our feelings hurt or something like that. Or not in our feelings for maybe left out right or something with no one's meaning to do it. But I have to catch myself if the rare time that happens. And in my mind, I think and I don't share that with the person. And I think was this did they intend to leave me out to the intended view feel hurt? Hurt my feelings? Or was it just to other people and did something because opportunity presented itself? And I have to think, is the is my feeling out of a place of love? Like? In other words, do I want what's best for them? And where they do anything to me? No. And then I can kind of put on my big girl pants and say, Hold on, okay, I can release this and know that they love me, and I love them. And there was no ill anything and I can let it go. But it takes it because we want to and I'm sure that's probably a trigger for a lot of women, right? Because maybe when we were in middle school or high school, right, maybe we felt left out of something once or something. Right? Right. So same thing with friendships is I have to assess what's going on, and then make a decision about what's my part in this is and can I do something to improve how I'm thinking about it?

Yes, absolutely. There are those things that we carry with us. And we don't realize it until we analyze our feelings when they come out a little bit unexpectedly. Yeah.

So let me ask you this. Since you talk so much, you know about trying to help women embrace the imperfections of life and our you know, our selves, because everyone right is imperfect. We're always a work in progress. And it's also mothering, you know, in the season of motherhood, which never goes away. But of course, it's when you're in the trenches, right baby to when they're out of the house. You know, that's really the height of all the seasons of differences of being a mother. But what are the maybe the top three things that you've that you'd like to share with women about, hey, this is a, this can be a messy season, but it's okay. And this is what I want to tell you.

Yeah. One thing is to really know that there are blessings and burdens in every season of life in general, but particularly with motherhood because we sometimes wish away the current season that we're in because the demands might be really hard like in that when you're a brand new mom, you're not sleeping a lot and it's really hard to function on no sleep. And so you're just kind of wishing it away, like once the baby's sleeping through the night once or something through the night. But then the next thing is once they're walking once they're potty training, and so I think we just unconsciously kind of wish some of the seasons of motherhood away because they're demanding but like I said, there's blessings and burdens to both So once our kids are a little more self sufficient, they can get themselves cereal they're sleeping through the night those And then it kind of changes to a little bit more being like mentally or emotionally draining versus the physically right. But in every season, there's beauty and there are blessings. And we get to choose where we're going to focus. So we can focus on the demands on the lemons on the frustrations that we have. But then the beautiful things about that season are kind of off to the side, like we're not really focusing and enjoying them. But what if we flipped that and instead focus on the beauty and the blessings of the season. And then those burdens aren't just like the focus of our thoughts and of our days, and, and it really just can help shift our perspective to try to appreciate where we are right now. Because the seasons changed so quickly. And before we know it, we're in a new season, and we're missing some of the things that we had in the previous one.

Absolutely, I can attest to that. So I have all high schoolers and college aged kids now. And absolutely, there are so many days that I'm missing when they used to just wrap their little bodies like monkeys around me and like on my neck, and, you know, like I was their world. And now and I have only boys three boys. So at this age, it's like, I am not their world, if you know what I mean. So it's it is there's a lot of days where I'm like, Oh, I missed that, like, I have to chase them for a hug, you know what I mean? And so, we're not wrong, being someone that's on the later side of parenting, you know, it's true, like, just keep, I mean, make the memories and have the fun. And, you know, I often when I write about, you know, being a mom, it's, it's like, it's okay, like, if you have a couple of dishes in the sink, or you didn't vacuum yesterday, or this week, maybe even it's like, truly, that is less important than prioritizing the time with your family, like getting down on the floor and playing with them, you know, and nurturing gym and all the other things, but truly, it's like, that's a part we can't get back, we can always clean our floors more we can always will have to, but the time with the people we care about, you know, and, and bringing them up, that time is limited. And when you're in and it doesn't always feel like it right? Because one day could feel like it goes on forever. But that's gonna that's gonna change, you know, and so you're so right, you know, and really, I do agree with you, I think that's really having that heart of like service and gratitude is if we show up and really see like just how much of a blessing it is, right? These these beautiful children of ours, even when it's hard. Really, we can really flip the script, like you said, and really love each day, even in the chaotic moments. Right.

Another thing I would add is to really be kind to yourself. Again, I mentioned earlier, as moms, we put all of this pressure on ourselves to get it all right, and to do it perfectly. And I think the heart behind it is good that we want to be the best moms that we can, because we want to love our kids well, and we want to raise them well. But here's the thing, nobody else is expecting you to be perfect. God doesn't expect us to be perfect, he knows that we aren't capable of that. Otherwise, we wouldn't need him right. So let's live with dependence on him trusting that he's going to help us. So when we make a mistake, when we do have that time where we lose our temper with our kids, and we get frustrated and yell or whatever that looks like, let's not shame ourselves, let's not take on the mentality of we're the worst mom in the world, we can still be good moms who have bad moments. So as we take on a kinder approach and a kinder reaction to ourselves. I think it really also speaks volumes to our kids because our kids observe what we do and our responses even to ourselves. So if we go around telling our kids like, I'm so sorry, I was the worst mom ever because I made this mistake. Our kids pick up on that. And our kids are so quick to forgive. I have found when I make mistakes with my kids, I really tried to ask for their forgiveness, acknowledge what has happened and the times where I'm still so upset with myself. They're like it's okay mom, I understand or I love you anyway, and they just are so gentle and kind and I think we want to teach our kids how to respond when they make mistakes. We don't want our kids to feel like they have to be perfect. Yes, we want excellence. Yes, we want obedience, but we know they're not going to be perfect. So let's not expect that of ourselves or of our kids either.

Absolutely, it's so good and and it's so right because we are human and having relationships with people is messy, right? There's going to be moments where we're just going to take something the wrong way or like you said we're going to kind of be at the our end of our rope for the day or whatever. I leave my maxed out. And so we're gonna have like you send these little our fuses gonna maybe get lit, we're going to either get upset or we're going to react something maybe we didn't have we didn't want to write in our best moments, we wouldn't have reacted that way. But it's it is kind of human nature, you know. And so it is so important, like you said to just to acknowledge, you know what I didn't, that's not how I wanted to act, you know, and I am sorry, like you said, because our kids are learning how to have relationships that are healthy, and how we, we just don't continue that pattern of behavior, if it's something we realize is not what we want, you know, and it's not the best. So I think it's so important that you are sharing that and telling women that because sometimes I think when we're, you know, our kids are young, especially, we're kind of in a silo, you know, even if you see people all the time, you're doing playdates and things, you still think, because you're in your house plenty, like, oh, gosh, you know, like you said, we're just really criticizing ourselves, we're only looking ourselves, we're not with people all the time saying, Oh, that mom did that, too. And so actually, on that note, I would say, we also as moms and as women, we have to make sure that we can find other people that we can confide in, and talk about these things. Because I know for me, I have so many friends that were very willing, you know, as we went through the years, and motherhood to share, like the real real, right, like the truth, like oh, my gosh, I got so mad at my kid and blah, blah, nothing, we only want to talk about those moments, right? So we'll sit and tell you like, they kind of had a moment they lost it, you would think like, I am the worst. But when you hear that everyone has these struggles of these moments are these way we reacted, or maybe we handled something poorly, you start realizing like, I'm not that different from all my other friends or family that are parenting, we might parent different slightly. But we all are human. And we all have these moments where we didn't love what we did, or somebody didn't love what they did someone you know. And so talking about it being open about it makes us all realize, like you said, we can have more grace for ourselves, and we can have more grace for our kids.

100% I remember, specifically, my daughter was maybe about two. And a friend of mine, we were at a playdate and conversation just said I lost my temper with my daughter, you know, couple days go by a lot. And she just went on telling the story. But my heart just stopped right there. Because I thought, thank God, I'm not the only one her just admitting that out loud. Just made me feel so relieved, because I felt like I was the only mom who struggled with, you know, a two year old, but she just made it seem so normal. So natural, because she shared that. So that's actually another thing I would share is that it's important for us to be vulnerable about our imperfections, and some something in us as women, like we just want to cover those up. We didn't want to expose anybody, you know, to these parts of us because it is vulnerable. And we we do fear rejection, what if people don't like us? If they knew this about us? What will they think of us like we are very absorbed with what other people think about us. But I have found that when we open up and are vulnerable about imperfections, whether it's something simple, like our house is a mess, or something really deep. It just invites others to be vulnerable as well and to accept their imperfections, just like like we're sharing about ours. And actually, I have a story that a couple years ago, I was just going through a hard time some family things were going on. And I remember driving my daughter to school this particular morning, I'm at a stop sign and I see a car coming. But I didn't notice that there was another car coming right after and I started turning so I almost hit this car and we're in our neighborhood and it actually turned out to be a neighbor. I knew who she was because her kids went to the school but we had never met before but I almost T boned their car in our neighborhood on the way to school. And I was just so upset, like, oh my goodness, how did I not see them and I see her like raising her hands and like, you know, kind of yelling in the car I could just imagine. And of course, I followed her like no car got in between us the whole way to school. So I'm following her the whole way to school, we drop our kids off and I just thought what am I going to do? I really wanted to just drive back to my house and you know, close the garage and render under the covers and pretend it never happened. But I thought I felt like I need to apologize to her. So I followed her home. Again, this is the first time I've ever interacted with her and she pulled into the driveway and kind of abruptly you know, was like you need to pay attention. And I just said, I'm so sorry. You're 100% right. I didn't see you. I'm just going through a hard time. I feel like I'm in a bit of a fog this morning. And I'm so sorry. I know that you're my neighbor. I just wanted to come and apologize that it soften her approach with me a little bit after that. But then turns out in the next year we switched schools for Our kids and I walk into her curriculum night. And she's sitting there because her son was also at the school and in class with my daughter. And it really started a relationship from there. Because that night, curriculum night she told me, I think so much about what you said to me that day. And I realized how often that I sometimes have, you know, almost caused an accident or things like that. But then secondly, it reminded me that you never know what somebody is going through. And so she thanked me for that reminder. And so we both like had tears in her eyes. And just, you know, we're really grateful for that moment. And like I said, I didn't want to go apologize and share with her, but it felt like it was the right thing to do. And it really created this beautiful moment and friendship with with this neighbor that I had.

Love that. And it just reminded me of it. It's not even it wasn't even a Christian. Like it wasn't a pastor priest, it was actually a, I just heard a rabbi speaking on a podcast that I enjoy maybe a month ago, because the host is she's Jewish. And but anyways, he basically is talking about God. And he's saying that, like, one of the purposes for why we're here is to make the choice to do good, even when we don't feel like it, or like to make the right choice. And so I thought that was really interesting. So when you shared that part of the story, I was like, Yeah, because sometimes it's going through the discomfort, the uncomfortable. It's the other side of that, right, that we find the good stuff, right? Whether it's a future relationship, whether it's that God wants us to say something to somebody, whether it's that we needed to release it, so then we didn't feel the guilt, like, but it's so much on the other side of fear and discomfort, when we're, we're torn between Should we go and say something or do something or not? When it's the right thing, you know? So I think that's, that's really good that you shared that because it's true. A lot of times, we just have to have the courage for a minute to say, No, this is what I think I know I should do, right? Even if I don't want to right this minute.

Right? Right. So just leaning into that discomfort, and that vulnerability, really can reap a lot of great rewards on the other side.

Absolutely. Yes. So what what would you share just with the audience about? Maybe what's one of the things that's worked best for you and just releasing that those older tendencies, you've had to feel like everything your kids have to be perfect? Like, you have to be the perfect mom your house? Like what have you found? Is there a technique or something you do that really helps you kind of release some of that on a daily basis? Yes. So

one of the things is in this season, especially when my kids are very busy, they have a lot of things going on, I have tried to, we kind of talked a little bit earlier, but about like choosing where I focus, and seeing the messiness of life as beautiful evidence of God's hand. So for instance, some of us as moms get really triggered or upset by messes, right? Like our kids have messes when they're little, it's like a million little blocks and toys, and then eventually, it's Legos and whatever, like their kids have messes kids, most kids are not naturally neat and tidy, right? We have to teach them to do this. But I have found in this season, despite all of my teaching about these things, my children are still messy. And we're all selfish, right? The kids are selfish. So even though I asked them to take care of things like they just naturally will sometimes not do it. So I have tried to really flip the, the view of their methods. So when I see that their shoes strewn all over the floor, or backpacks, instead of seeing that as like, Oh, it's so frustrating. Their stuff is everywhere, I try to remember, Oh, this is beautiful evidence that I have kids in my house right now, and that my kids are well. And they can put these shoes on and go run and play their sports or play with their friends or the overflowing sink with dishes. Yes, it is a chore but it's also beautiful evidence that God has provided us with food to eat for today. And so as part of that we have these dishes to clean up. So really just trying to flip the obligations of life into again, just seeing God's hand and his provision. So even things like I have to go to the store, my daughter loves in this phase to like go to the store for things even if we don't necessarily need them. It's a want type of thing. And sometimes I'm like, Ah, I have to take her all of these places. But I really try to catch myself and say, Oh, I get to take her to these places. I get to go to the grocery store, which is less than a mile from my house. And it's a blessing that when we run out of something, I can just pop over there and do it. So it's really just trying to flip those things because like we talked about at the beginning, there are seasons to life. So I know in a couple of years my daughter is going to be at college or wherever God sends her and I'm not going to get to take her Are to the store multiple times a week for things that she asks for. So it really is just trying to also keep the long game in perspective. And you know, this question because you said your kids are older, like, there is a time when they will want. So just trying to see these obligations on our time that texting them and taking them everywhere really just trying to see these things as blessings instead of frustrations or like obligations that are so difficult, let's just flip that and see those things as beautiful evidence of God's hand in our season.

Oh, that said, so well, and I 100% agree in line with that. And, you know, it's it is a work in progress. But I have had to learn that lesson many, many times. And even last year, I have shared you know, some of this on my podcast and on em online. But one of my sons who is way at college, he had he end up having to come home because he started he was struggling with depression and things and you know, so he's, you know, he's just going to school from here, you know, at a local college for now. But he was really just not eating other than like chips and hummus and he wasn't going and you maybe go get a fast food something sometimes but even since he's come home, I can't really give him like to he's not motivated to go make himself a meal he'll he'll eat some things, you know, certain things I make that almost every day like I you know, I did a whole episode called like, the most important thing I do today might be making peanut butter toast. Now part of me wants to say you are too old for me to be your mother making up hamburger chose to write he's not fun. But then I have to remind myself, if this is how he sees love, and he's not doing it for himself, because of the state he's in or has been walking through. That, to me is just me being able to show him that we care about him and that he needs you Not that that's the most healthy thing. That's not the point, right? It's like, there's the options of things to eat. But if me steak taking five minutes out of my day to go give this, you know, grown child, some food, it's like then, then I have to remember that it's so important. But at first I wanted to be like, This is crazy. Why would I be like your other brothers would make their breakfast? You know what I mean? It's yeah, it's a it's a shift, I had to shift and realize that my heart is that I want my son better. And so I how, what are the things I can do to make them better? And forget about, oh, at this age, someone should do a certain thing, because that's not you know, he's that's a it's not only that, right? It's not only about raising them up and all that. And, you know, so I think it is shifting, you know, our perspectives and remembering like, I still we still have this time with him, he's still in the house, these are still moments, you know, that I go up and ask him, you know, Oh, would you like something, you know, and whereas that might not be happening if he was getting his own stuff, you know, so Right. You know, I think it's, we do have to find the beauty even in those hard things. And, like you said, and find that the gift that it is,

right, yeah, and I love just the reminder of how we love our kids in a million different ways. Like, you know, it's something as simple as making them toast, even if they're old enough to do it, they, it is still an act of love. And I think as women, sometimes we hold ourselves to the standard that we have to achieve certain things, again, being a perfectionist, especially like, Oh, I didn't accomplish anything, we look around the house. And it's a mess, and I didn't accomplish anything. But again, the dishes are signs that you serve, provided your family with food, or cook them a meal, or, again, the shoes and toys everywhere, like you provided your children with this, these things to enjoy. So it really is just helpful to stop putting the pressure and to analyze, oh, I do achieve loving my family and all of these different ways.

Absolutely. So let me ask you what's maybe the one last thing you want to leave the audience with, you know, just about your walk of faith. And you know, being a mom.

Yeah, I would say, to trust that God does beautiful things with imperfection. And we've talked about that. I feel like that's a thread through our conversation. But just a reminder, again, we were not meant to be perfect, God can come and fill in the gaps of our imperfections. He does that in so many ways. I think through his strength and his word, but also through other people that he puts in our lives who are strong in areas that we are not and we can rely on them. God created us for community. But I think to just trust and especially in seasons that are hard. We all go through different seasons with each of our kids because they're wired differently. They have different personalities. And so sometimes we just find ourselves in a hard spot with our kids or maybe it's not with our kids or our marriage or finances or work or whatever that is to just trust that God can do beautiful things even in that place that may not feel wonderful or comfortable. We we can just trust that God is always at work, that he is always there for us and that good Really good, beautiful things can come out of our just giving what we have our own brokenness and our own, again, weaknesses. God can work with that and do some really great things.

Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, what can you share with us, Andrea? How can people connect with you online and learn more about your podcast and your writing and all that stuff?

Absolutely. So I have the podcast, the perfectionist guide to mothering. You can find that where you're listening to this podcast or wherever you like to listen. And I'm on Instagram at Andrea Fortenberry. And then I have a website as well, Andrea fortenberry.com.

Thank you so much for joining us today, and sharing so many good tips and just inspiring us, you know, to keep going as moms, you know, and just as women as we show up in our lives, and we walk you know, in our faith journey, and we just talked to, you know, to keep growing little humans. So thank you so much for joining us today.

Thanks, Kristen.

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